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RT Dec 2
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Fanci`:
thank Y/you all for being with us tonight. this is another in our series
of RoundTable forums ..where we will discuss contemporary .. meaning o/l ...
gorean issues. and being Goreans .. and friends of Goreans .. we will no
doubt agree to disagree, on some things. but .. civilized debate is the
cornerstone of learning .. and we welcome you all to participate. The room
may be moderated at any time to allow for an orderly flow of conversation.
Hopefully that will not be necessary. Fanci`: the first Issue for the evening .....when a slave is freed .. they are able then to join the community of the Frees. Should they be given full standing immediately (to sit as Peer on councils or caste meetings)? Or should they serve a sort of Apprentice Period (and if so, how long?), while they encounter some of the issues that perhaps they never considered during their slavery? Korus`: Fanci, can you clarify that? Fanci` grins to DrkRider .. you want to expand on that? PhantomOP: that's a subject close to my heart LadyIsollae raises hand DrkRider gets on the BarO'Olay box he snatches from Alx Fanci`: Korus` .. when a slave becomes Free .. are they immediately given all the Rights and Appurtenances thereto .. or should they sit quietly for a period of time? DrkRider: Some of you know me..other don't... WindDancer rases his hand Fanci` listens to DrkRidera, nodding to LadyIsollae . you're next. PhantomOp raises his hand also DrkRider waits... Anyways Fanci`: DrkRider... go ahead please . you have the floor. DrkRider: I wrote these rules in conjunctions with the early S&S ops..according to the books...never had we imagine that it would ever become an evolution upon itself and needed revisions Alxhandra after careful contemplation raises her hand too DrkRider: but I am getting married to a girl..who was free, slave..and free by necessity of marrying the ever clueless DR DrkRider smiles ... when it comes to females..I am clueless, nevertheless ...a female is the object of her soul..and otherwise the rules that are dicated to her by a man. it is not for another to judge, inquire, nor dispute with her. It is with me. and in that sense, she is what I dictate her to be as per the books. no more and no less. I take the responsibility. I accept the consequences, and therefore she is what I wish her to be DrkRider steps down Fanci`: well... looking at it a bit more broadly .. and perhaps LadyIsollae can respond to this .. should a slave boy become Free .. and join the caste of Whatevers .. should he aspire to a high position in that caste? Fanci` looks to LadyIsollae Fanci`: high position right away, I mean .. or should he wait and watch a bit? LadyIsollae: while yes many slave do become Free...and I will speak only of FW, since that is what I know about...:) Fanci` nods LadyIsollae: high position right away...no...way too many become FW and stay that way for a week or a month then they are slave again Fanci` grins and nods solemnly LadyIsollae: way to many go from one or the other with no thought to FW or to slaves for that matter Fanci` looks to LadyIsollae, nodding agreement ... then looks to WindDancer LadyIsollae: and while WE are free because it pleases the FM to have us as such...where is the respect that many of us have fought so hard for Fanci`: WindDancer .. you had thoughts on this? Alxhandra finds her shadows again and waits her turn WindDancer: Indeed WindDancer: I believe,Since we are all adults here,That we must conceed,That we all have certain rights,And It is my humble opinion,That I do think that they should have imeadiate rights,As such that we do as the Free as soon as we come here as such.They are attemtping to gain a perspective on what they intend to be,And how can that be accomplished when they are forced to sit aside and just watch. WindDancer: Again,This is just my opinion DrkRider: good opinion {CSF}nyla nods to Master WindDancer Fanci` nods to WindDancer ... indeed .. that is a strong argument for immediately taking their place in society. Fanci` looks now to PhantomOp PhantomOP: thanks, Fanci` Korus` raises his hand PhantomOP: I have just released a girl that I owned for two years, so that she might be free Fanci` nods, knowing of the case PhantomOP: I did so in order to be able to take her as Companion. when she was freed, she was immediately given a place of trust and respect in my home DrkRider smiles Alxhandra nods PhantomOP: I have seen nothing in the books I have read that advocates denying a newly freed slave their place in Free society, and while I am no "book-thumper".... Korus` nods PhantomOP: I try to live this by the standards I learn Fanci` nods PhantomOP: and as such, will give any Free the status they deserve. it matters not if they are newly free, or have always been so here WindDancer nods PhantomOp steps down from his soapbox Fanci` smiles Fanci`: Alxhandra :) Sis .. please give us your thoughts Alxhandra> i have been slave for most of my online Gorean life ... i was released and freed july 99 ... i was immediately accepted and also as a scribe as i am one in rl also ... most knew me and perhaps the reason i was so readily accepted was that even when i was slave my opinion was appreciated and respected .... in my opinion, i am in no position to judge others who go through the same experiences, but i can support and be there for them through the transition ... in time i believe that all show their true colours ...i do find many men tho that once finding out i have been slave, only see me as such even now WindDancer: Agrees Alxhandra thinks she is finished Fanci` smiles and then turns to look to Korus` Fanci`: Brother .. your thoughts, please? Korus`: Thanks Fanci Korus` stands LadyIsollae listens Korus`: well I am not greatly learne, and do not profess to be, but there are numerous references in the books to slaves that were freed ans immediately given the status of fully Freed men Fanci` listens closely Korus`: and accounted the rights responsibilities and all such of their new Free status DrkRider smiles LadyIsollae thinks on that Korus`: I know that even on here I would much rather listen closely to what a newly Freed slave has to say and give it the credance due it over a newby Free that has been on Gor a week or so. Fanci` nods vigorously at that Korus`: their status is less in question by me than their Honor. and proper judgement in things Gorean. Korus` retakes his seat. Fanci` looks to DrkRider and smiles DrkRider: Gor is an evolution of events..It is neither
atatic nor unmovable..it is a matter of heart over mind...honoure is the
rule..not the the roadblock to evolution DrkRider: and in that sense Alxhandra thinks those are well spoken words DrkRider: it was unanimous DrkRider: er..sorry Alx Alxhandra looks at DR, sorry ? DrkRider smiles and walks away from the remnants of the "oil of Olay "box WindDancer: Good words Korus` nods Fanci` nods to DrkRider .. you made your point well Alxhandra: oh the box, tis okay contents didn't work anyhow Fanci` looks around to A/all ... Fanci`: it seems there is a consensus here .. Fanci`: that a newly freed slave deserves all the rights and respects of any other Free LadyIsollae: I still disagree Fanci`: and should be welcomed into the community of Free People DrkRider listens LadyIsollae Fanci` looks to LadyIsollae .. would you like to summarize your thoughts? DrkRider: please let her air her opinions Korus` listens carefully LadyIsollae: if you are going to go by the books...then yes, Korus` made a good point..but the key word was Men, not women even if they were taken back to their Home Stone they still stood chance of recapture Korus` raises his hand Fanci` listens to LadyIsollae LadyIsollae: but...since we are speaking of online, where are the according to Gorean law in the scrolls, a freed slave is given papers of manumission. who gives them the vote for their caste? DrkRider: It was said that all women are merely creaures of time..for time and fate decides their destiny..and that applies to you Lady..it is not what you will..rather fate that decided in the books LadyIsollae: I have no problem with a slave being Freed...none at all....what I do have a problem with are those who go back and forth DrkRider: you are merely a girl in waitting if you prefer ...according to the books LadyIsollae: fate decides all destiny, DrkRider. perhaps DrkRider: no..men decide it Fanci` looks to LadyIsollae .. Sister, that (going back and forth) is the Issue I will throw to the floor next DrkRider: fate just determine which man decide it Fanci` looks to Korus` .. I believe you had a thought, Bro? LadyIsollae: I have never been slave....I can only and will only speak from my point Korus`: Thanks again Fanci LadyIsollae listens to Korus` Korus`: I have seen few references to freed females in the book, yet the few I have read of do not seperate the accord and Honor that comes with the change to Free exactly as a man DrkRider sees a bad moon rising and waits his turn again Korus`: I do have a question though DrkRider winks to Alx Korus`: for those more learned Alxhandra smiles at DR Korus`: when freed, do the slave that has just been Freed again become a member of their old caste? DrkRider: Girls can never be a caste member, so the point is moot Grey0: not true, DrkRider {GR}jenari raises her hand. Korus`: not right Grey0: what of the scribes and the healers DrkRider: they have a homestone..and that too become a distant memory with time WindDancer: Oh,My mistake,You were refering to women,Sorry DrkRider: memeber..no..practioners..yes Alxhandra doesn't remember any women in the books who were actual caste members, least far as she has read so far <{GR}jenari> aye, Mistress, caste rights are inherited from the Father, Mistress. Korus` nods <{GR}jenari> a Woman is born into the caste the same as a Man, the difference being some castes do not permit the Woman to practice the skills of the caste such as the caste of Warriors, Mistress. DrkRider rubs his chin..on that note..I would conceed DrkRider: nevertheless Alxhandra smiles and makes a note Fanci` winks to DrkRider and grins DrkRider: I suppose as a warrior I see things differently Fanci`: understandable :) DrkRider: I will..ermm...step back.. Alxhandra winks at DR, you always see things a bit different, hon DrkRider smiles..all yers Fanci sereem: more a question/statement than an opinion...... Fanci` motions sereem to take the soapbox sereem: ser is not well schooled on the books and has not been on Gor that long so her knowledge is limited but ser has seen this repeatedly with females online and heard it from thier own typed fingers..... there are females that Cap up and become Free in between every Master they wish to not be bothered by serving till they find somneone that suits them thus a way to be selective....this is not ser's view but words told to her from some. Alxhandra: i think that will be addressed with Fanci's next issue sereem, smiles sereem: and has seen them change weekly in her short time here....so wonders how much input a FW could give on councils if she that indecisive. DrkRider chuckles sereem hushes Fanci` laughs .. good point, sereem {CSF}nyla: nyla says this respectfully to all the Free present, please understand this..BUT nyla concurs with her sister, sereem in her views on this....why is such allowed, is there not a rule/law, whatever they people cannot go back & forth on a whim....this is submitted respectfully as it has long been a question.. LadyIsollae: the very thing, nyla I have been saying {CSF}nyla: There are so many Free Ladies that work hard to maintain their respectability Grey0: in many rooms, "once a slave, ALWAYS a slave" Fanci`: I think this is a question that comes up frequently .. and it is at the heart of our next Issue. looks around ... {CSF}nyla: there are so many slaves that work hard and feel the burning in their bellies... {CSF}nyla: thank you Mistress Fanci` *wink* Fanci`: if W/we are ready .. I'd like to move on. this ties in with our last .. and may lead us to some logical conclusions 2/ Some Goreans switch occasionally from Free to slave. Some switch daily. How is a reasonable way to regard switches and evaluate their behavior and comments? Should their history be forgotten, and deal with them (at any given time) on the basis of the current nick? Or must one keep in mind, they may appear as the opposite persona next time? Shold their view be given extra wieght because they see Gorean matters from both sides?
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